Tuesday, July 05, 2005

Ranting and raving

Greetings and toast everyone. Bodie Ashton is back in the land of the living (ie. not the Bodie Mansion, where the phone line has gone belly-up), and I'm in the mood to rant. However, this one's a little different than the last few times. This time, I'm wanting to refer to my most recent Casbah post about heroes and heroism, or specifically, the response I received from that.

I'm over the moon that there were some twelve comments to that post. It's good to know that my posts end up doing what I want them to do: provoke thought and lively discussion. After all, this is what the Couch Casbah is here for: it's a public forum for the airing of ideas and opinions.
But I'd like to focus, and if necessary, rebut some comments left on the post.

Let's start off with the most critical of my original post:

Stephanie: "Your appraisal of the mass-media reflects little understanding of journalistic practice in contemporary culture.
In perhaps puerile terms, the journalist is a storyteller- and an inherent feature of every narrative is the existence of heroes and villains. Your post suggests that the very nature of heroism has been corrupted by opportunistic agents of an elusive and ill-defined 'free printmedia', and that we, an easily led public, blindy accept this 'trivialised' and diluted definition of true bravery. It's simply untrue."
[...]
"You are no more qualified to determine what constitutes heroism than any other person. We all have heroes and idols. Just because they don't save lives, or place themselves in physical danger, does not render them any less heroic. The father who labours from 7am-7pm, in order to provide for his family, is a kind of hero. The unfortunate soldier charged with thankless latrine duties, who works in abhorrent conditions under enemy fire, is a hero. The passengers of an ill-fated helicopter journey, scheduled to deliver aid in the devasted Aceh region, are also heroes, having placed themselves at risk, (which you duly acknowledged) in order to assist the less fortunate. An unwell man, held captive by violent and irrational extremists, for political purposes with which he is not involved, demonstrated poise and courage in a period of exceptional adversity. In emerging from this ordeal (relatively) unscathed, even Douglas Wood, he of ostensibly suspicious financial motives, is a kind of hero."


First of all, I believe your idea of what a journalist is leaves a bit to be desired...and yes, I am well aware that you are studying journalism. But that doesn't make you a recognised expert on the subject. I study history. I am not an historian, and I do not believe I am, at this point in time, able to claim that I have superior and intimate knowledge of the historian's work, simply because it's what I study.
Why do I not like your opinion of journalism, Stephanie? Quite simply, because it is not the obligation of the journalist to craft a story within which one can find virtue, tyranny, and the battle of good versus evil. Rather, the journalist has the obligation to report events, circumstances and situations as objectively as possible, in order to provide information to the public. Yes, there is always some form of subjectivity, but that should be acknowledged so that the public can create their own informed opinions on a variety of subjects. This is the ideal, this is what all journalists should strive for. If they want to make heroes and villains, they have no right peddling their wares as they do, as informative tomes.
Furthermore, the public is easily led and blind to reason in these instances, if you will forgive the generalisation. This is the reason why such things as propaganda exist: because they are successful, because given enough prompting the public will blindly follow anything that sounds like it has any foundations in authority and reason. The media is one of these authorities. We rely on the mass media to provide us with information about the outside world; they are, if you'll forgive the hackneyed analogy, the eyes and ears of our society. Unfortunately, it seems that the media wears colour-shaded glasses and has selective hearing...
It then seems odd that you, as a student of journalism, can then deny the very reason journalism and the media exist; as I stated earlier, the media is there so we can craft our own opinions. Yet you seem to think that I have no right to my opinion that Douglas Wood, Ted Smout, and indeed many others, do not deserve the title of hero or idol. If it were indeed the case that opinions should be censored, as you evidently believe by saying that I have no right to opine, then I should surely have deleted your comment, because I don't believe you to be right. But I wouldn't want to do that. It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. I'm just disagreeing with you, as I have a right to.
I have further problems with your comment, but I don't want it to seem like I'm just dismissing your opinion out of hand. Certainly not. It's well thought out. The fact that I've bothered to respond indicates this.

Jacob: "The only argument i can possibly add as a counter(well, sorta) argument to bodie's rant, is that the journalists are too dimwitted to find a more appropriate word for someone that 'got into a difficult situation but escaped somehow' or had an unfortunate accident befall them."

As our good friend Stephanie indicated beforehand, the media provides what the public wants. While, as I have already stated, the obligation of the journalists lies with objectively presenting information, there is equally no doubt that stories are embellished, detailed avoided, others exaggerated, in order to create something for which we will buy newspapers and watch television. After all, what evokes more emotive images than the word 'hero'? One's mind turns to a swashbuckling character, Zorro-like, going through great adversity for their fellow man with naught but a gleaming smile and a kind word or two. Then we realise that this 'hero' is an odious expatriate who went to another country to exploit the impoverished masses and make money, got caught by militants, got rescued and now makes even more money from the whole episode. Sure, we feel let down. But we still spent money and time reading and watching, and that's all that matters. So yes, it may seem that the journalists are too dim-witted to find another word to use, but in actual fact they are being shrewd and devious, and it is in fact we, the lay public, who are dim-witted for constantly getting sucked in by their promises of a 'real' hero.

Stephanie: "Thank Christ there was not a shred of academic rationale in your comment, Jacob."

To be perfectly honest, Stephanie, my original post didn't have any academic rationale. But that doesn't make it any less correct in my view or, indeed, in other people's views. In a similar fashion, I like Eskimo Joe. You think they're boring. There's no academic merit to either opinion, but they are both as correct as each other.

Jacob: "i came here to rant steph, not write a fucked up english essay. who needs academics when the plain truth and sheer annoyance with the world of news "medium" (are you happy jason?!)can get the message across without having to stoop so low as to use or need "academic rationale". waste someone elses time with your argumentative bullshit and bullying. your not always right, and the argument you posted is proof.
GOOD DAY!!"

Angus:
"To Stephanie: Note the Casbah's slogan (at time of publishing)of "In Rant We Trust". That's RANT, not REASONED ACADEMIC DEBATE.
To Jacob: Stephanie is invoking her God because if you made a decent academic argument she would be forced to defend her point from your roguish desecration and drag this unseemly debate further"

To both Angus and Jacob, there's nothing wrong with being academic in one's assertions. I disagree with the claim that an argument is invalid just because it is not necessarily academic (see above), but so too do I disagree with the assertion that a rant cannot be academic in any way, shape or form. Juan's post on the market economy was a prime example of a good academic rant. Stephanie's original comment is another, and while you and I disagree with her view, it was not a waste of time. You responded to it, and so am I. Obviously, if we're taking the time to reply, we think it worthy of comment. And Angus, the point of my post was to lead to a reasoned debate. There is no point in making a blanket statement if you cannot back it up with some form of evidence.

So thanks to everyone for commenting, but don't forget to keep it civil.

And last but not least to Jason, in the modern era, 'media' is referred to as singular, and correct or incorrect, I shall adhere to social norms.
-The end-
(yep, this could have been a News Limited fairy-tale if I wanted it to be...)

Comments on "Ranting and raving"

 

Blogger Pat Mysterio Jr. said ... (3:45 PM) : 

RANT = Reasoned Academic Neuron-induced Talkings? Ah, the (mis)use of acronyms...

Anyway, There are some things people should know, some things they shouldn't, some things they want to, some things they don't, some things they don't have time to know and some things they chose not to...it's hard for a journalist to suit all of these, but if it turns out the Average-Joe-Little-Aussie-Battler-fighting -it-out-against-big-Corporation wants heros in there lives, then heroes there will be, and as the Knights-on-horseback count is low, the definitions of 'Hero' is adapted.

Oh, and +1 to disliking Eskimo Jo :) Sorry, had to add that in

 

Blogger Denley said ... (7:28 PM) : 

I have an alternate view on the 'obligations' of jopurnalists that you seem to disagree about with stephanie. In fact, i dont believe there exists any obligation at all in journalistic practices.

I believe in freedom of speech. Ie. That a journalist has the right to write whatever he/she wishes. I believe that if there exists a problem in labelling and subjective media then it is the fault of the readers who take this in and would prefer to pay money towards the medium that contain such subjective articles.

 

Blogger Jason said ... (8:04 PM) : 

Firstly, I would like to point out that I agree with Bodie's assessment that the purpose of journalism should be to provide readers, viewers, etc. with knowledge of current events (or perhaps newsworthy events, but then you start getting into a grey area). This was the intent with which the art of journalism was first created. However, as with many things in our society, journalism has been corrupted. I no longer watch the news on television, or read the Advertiser, not because I am not interested in current events, but because I do not believe that I will receive the facts as they are through watching the news or reading the Advertiser. Another reason that I do not generally make use of those traditional media is that they (and I'm speaking generally here) do not cover the sorts of issues that I'm interested in with any sort of objectivity or thoroughness.

While I do believe that freedom of speech is a fundamental human right that should be protected, it is important to note that we have no Bill of Rights in Australia and no right, under law, to freedom of speech or expression. I believe in freedom for the press, but, as with many other freedoms, it has been abused. The major media in our society have thwarted people's views on so many topics with loaded articles and articles shaped by the writers' opinions. I am talking about a gradual, but remarkably thorough and disturbingly un-noticed (do you like my use of evocative adjectices?), formation of people's opinions by the opinions of reporters. I was astonished by what I discovered when I researched anti-male bias in our society (I wrote an essay entitled 'Anti-Male Bias in Our Society'). I must admit that I was 'brainwashed' by our society and did not see the bigger picture and, indeed, the truth of the matter. Another issue which speaks to our complete and total (I am generalising) ignorance about issues that should be of the utmost importance to us is the fact that most people in our society support the current implementation of copyright law (I have written an essay on this topic also).

How about the issue of illegal immigrants? Do any of us have any first-hand (or even reliable second-hand) knowledge of this issue? I doubt that many in our society could answer yes to that question, but we seem to believe ourselves more than qualified to debate it at length. I am not saying that one is disallowed from having an opinion, nor am I saying that we need to research thoroughly something before we discuss it, but I am saying that we shouldn't believe everything we hear, or see, because the fact of the matter is that the media aren't as reliable as some of us (would like to) believe.

 

Blogger Jason said ... (8:07 PM) : 

I apologise for this double-post, but I am unable to edit my initial post. I would like to add that if anyone would like a copy of any of my essays, they should just contact me. I shall be making a post on the issue of Copyright in the near (or at least, not-so-distant) future, but I would like to give Bodie's post on this extremely relevant and important issue the air-time it deserves.

 

Blogger Angus said ... (11:45 PM) : 

There are some people who rant without fact, figures, or even coherent opinion. There are others who meticulously press their point home with links to informative websites, visual aids etcetera. Then there's Angus. Perpetual devil's advocate with no static opinions, often just the negative of someone else's. Keep it not too heavy, not too light people! Just Right! Damn you Kellogg's! Damn you!

 

Blogger Denley said ... (2:10 AM) : 

Jason. You say that you agree with freedom of speech but think that it has be abused. Isn't the point of freedom of speech the fact that people have the right to say whatever thay want? Doesn't this mean that this right can't be abused, as no such expressions of opinion can be seen as morally wrong? From what you have said it seems that you believe that people have the right to freedom of speech only as long as they dont use this freedom to the full extent. Does this not defy the point?

As you have mentioned, people have the right to their own opinion. So, why not let them express this to the ful extent? if such a problem exists of opinion propagation through the media then this is this not the fault of people who base their opinions on such misleading facts about and subjective representation of current events?

If you agree with freedom of opinions then why is this such an issue? Don't people have the right to base their opinions on whatever pleases them? If not, then this is not freedom of opinion.

 

Blogger Jason said ... (9:11 AM) : 

Denley, you're right about everything except "as no such expressions can be seen as morally wrong." Whether or not freedom of expression is something good, some opinions can be considered morally wrong. For example, the opinion that sexual intercourse before marriage is an acceptable thing is, I believe, morally wrong. Yes, the opinion itself, not just the action to which it may or may not lead, is morally wrong. It is what we believe that makes us who we are.

I believe in freedom of the press to do what it was initially commissioned to do - inform our society's citizens. The press should be able to print on any topic, and print any information as long as it conforms to those boundaries. You may be right when you say that this is not true freedom and if you are, then it is not freedom that we need.

I personally don't believe that freedom of speech could exist in any society. You should not be able to say defaming things about other people, you should not be able to tell children they are useless, et al. This is similar to freedom of religion, another right which cannot exist. For example, say that I was a member of a religion whose members were required to kill children (I use children because people generally think doing things to children is worse than doing them to older people, and I want to shock you) to reach heaven (or some variation thereof). Would that be acceptable in our society? No, at worst it would be an excuse for murdering children, and at best it would be a very costly way to reach heaven.

It is both the fault of the media and the members of our society who base their opinions on their (the media's) articles. Yes, people are free to believe whatever they like, and yes, people are free to base their opinions on whatever they like, but I do not believe this leads to an informed and fully functional society. I do not believe people should have the freedom to base their opinions on whatever they like. If this is not freedom, then cut off my penis and shove it up my anus, 'cause I don't want it!

 

Blogger Denley said ... (1:41 AM) : 

There is a fundamental problem with what you are saying. What makes the opinion "that sex before marriage is not an acceptable thing" and more 'morally right' than the opinion "that sex before marriage is an acceptable thing"? The truth is, there is nothing that separates these two contrary opinions in regards to assertion of what is 'morally right'.

What i meant by the line you quoted me on was that the expression of such opinion is not morally wrong, regardless of the opinion. This is the point of freeom of speech.

The issue of freedom to express defaming opinions only arises due to ignorance and self-esteem issues with our society. The example you gave about telling a child they are useless is only a problem because of the way the child chooses to respond to such allegations. If this child were thinking reasonably then he/she would not be compelled to take is so harshly.

Now, dont get me wrong, im not saying that i would tell children that they are useless. Im not a jerk. However, i believe that if i were to, then the child should (ideally) not respond very harshly and simply realise that what i was saying is full of shit.

I believe that this is the direct cause of many social issues in our society including the issue of subjective media representation. I believe that freedom of opinion, speech, and decision can exist without such problems as long as these self-created (generally psychological) issues in our society did not exist. I also believe that this is the only scenario that can occur without such social problems, but still avoiding hypocracy is moral standards.

Whoops, i think i have been rambling. Perhaps i should not have posted my response in the middle of the night.

 

Blogger Jason said ... (9:08 AM) : 

Well, I already said that I'm not really in to freedom of speech if people use it as an excuse to continue in their ignorance (which, I believe is what's happening).

You argue that children should "think reasonably," but the fact is that (before a certain age) children cannot think reasonably. There is a point at which a person can respond in with reason, but before which reason is out of their reach. If you speak negatively to a child, they may not have the capacity to respond in the most postive way (for themselves, at least). However, I do believe that a fundamental part of the human psyche are the needs to feel loved and to be praised.

Why would it constitute you being a jerk telling children that they're useless if the problem lies in the way they react to it?

Freedom of opinion, speech and decision can never exist without the problems we have been discussing. Whenever you give a sufficiently large number of people a freedom, it will be abused. There are always "bad eggs in the basket," and, in fact, we're all "bad eggs." We all abuse the freedoms given to us at one time or another.

 

Blogger purple_sneakers said ... (12:02 AM) : 

Thanks very much, Bodie.

I've now seen the error in my ways. It's evident that I know nothing whatsoever about the journalistic profession and am unqualified to pass judgement. I'll leave that up to you, given that judgemental critique and academic posturing appears to be your specialty.

You dare to question me for demanding some for of academic rationale. Had you any insight whatsoever regarding the nature of rhetoric, you might understand that such evidenciary proof is the backbone of sound persuasive writing. Strike that. Clearly, you do have some form of insight. After all...YOU said There is no point in making a blanket statement if you cannot back it up with some form of evidence. That's simply hypocritical. But I won't pick apart your post piece by piece. Chiefly because I'm not that bored...or that cruel.

According to Jacob, my writing is argumentative, bullying bullshit. Jesus, what trenchant criticism. I'm wounded. Apparently, I'm not always right, and my initial post 'was proof'. Well, Jacob...if you wish that I abandon academic rationale, I'll put the following point quite simply...

FUCK OFF. I COULDN'T CARE LESS WHAT YOU THINK OF ME, OR MY OPINIONS.

As for Angus? Well, (see above).

I'll refrain from comment in future.

After all, Bodie knows best.

Just ask him.

 

Blogger EMBO said ... (11:19 AM) : 

heYY!!! uh oh u guys are in trouble- someone very VERY UN-intellectual is about to spoil ur "Intellectual Debate" which i will now christen "NERD BULLYING". Unfortunately i haven't a fricken clue about what u dudes are "discussing". Out of all that colourful language i could only pick out 2 familiar words: one was journalism and oh crap i dont even remember what the other one was....shame on me.. NOT. i think the couch casbah should CALM DOWN and talk in terms a little more comprehensible to the average individual..namely me! ok seeya guys i want food!
from EMO

 

Blogger bodie said ... (5:45 PM) : 

Stephanie, if you care to actually read my post, you'll notice that NOWHERE within the text is any form of personal attack against you by me, and if there is it is completely unintentional and I shall gladly recant. I don't see how disagreeing with you makes me, as you claim on the tag-board, an "ill-informed pretentious mud-slinger", though...
I also don't see why you need to use personal insults, something which you accuse me of doing. Yes, I do dare to question you, as you yourself have done to me with my previous posts on the Casbah. Do you honestly believe that you are allowed to question my premises but I am not permitted to do likewise?
And finally, as I said on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS, my post is my opinion, and doubtless people have different opinions to me. I don't see where you get this idea that I think I'm superior to everyone ("After all, Bodie knows best...just ask him").

So evidently there has been a misunderstanding here.

 

Blogger Angus said ... (10:52 PM) : 

From someone who's been called a chauvanist, a Neanderthal, an elephant and a multitude of other names by Stephanie, I blame an intense competitive streak and perhaps the full moon or some other time of month for her subjective outbursts.

Keep happy people, and as I found out with Denley, arguing over the internet is rather fruitless.

 

Anonymous Denley said ... (11:40 PM) : 

Jason, i think we've been complicating it. I think, in summary, the point i am trying to make is that our entire social and economic structure is based on freedom of speech/opinion/decision, and for this reason people in society need to learn to work around this.

This freedom is the only way a society can have rules wihout contradiction as no single belief (not based on argument. so, an opinion) can be seen as more right than any other.

 

Blogger Jason said ... (7:34 AM) : 

There is an absolute truth, and thus certain beliefs can be determined more right than other beliefs. We do not live in a free society - that would be Social Darwinism, and even then, it's not really true freedom. Freedom is not the answer, perfect human beings is.

 

Anonymous Denley said ... (10:43 AM) : 

I agree that there exists an objective reality, which means that, argumentatively, some beliefs are more correct than others. However, dont you think that people should have the right to question this truth? If this proof can be proven then these questioning people will be shown to be wrong.

There exists a big problem in what you are saying. Who should decide which beliefs (those non objective ones) are 'right' or 'wrong'? what makes someone one of these 'perfect human beings' that you speak of? Freedom is the only system in which everyone's opinion can be heard, and no opinions are superioir to others for anything but argumentative merit. With regulated opinions/decision/freedom, we would be nothing more than a dictatorship and bigger issues such as propaganda would exist.

 

Anonymous jacob said ... (11:49 AM) : 

HA HA HA!!!

I WIN!
Stirring the pot is so fun! Everyone starts getting pissed off at everyone else. As to my feelings about Steph, read her feelings about me, minus the comment about not commenting anymore!!!

YAY!

 

Blogger Angus said ... (2:08 AM) : 

Internet anarchy. Subjective mud-slinging. Whatever has the Casbah come to? As Yeats said: "The centre does not hold". Time we started a happier post!

 

Blogger Judgement said ... (2:39 AM) : 

check my blog out

 

Blogger Jason said ... (6:48 PM) : 

Denley, you are absoultely right. There is no answer to this problem, the only thing we can do is live our lives according to our own beliefs. However, I still say that I'm right :)

 

Anonymous Denley said ... (9:12 PM) : 

But Jason, what if i were to tell you that you were not allowed to live your life according to these beliefs? or even have these beliefs? Would you think that this was unfair?

 

Blogger someone said ... (10:41 PM) : 

I spose a group hug won't help?
But that's sposed to work for everything!! :(

 

Blogger Jason said ... (4:39 PM) : 

For me, life is not about being fair, it's about a search for the truth. You would have to kill me to stop me seeking.

As for you, Tom, it's spelt "supposed." I am up for a group hug, though.

 

Anonymous jo said ... (4:29 PM) : 

group hugs are awesome. i am, personally, a huge hug advocate. i would write more, but that would involve a whole lot of writing that most people wouldn't pay much attention to anyhow. basically i think this discussion is getting slightly out of hand, but oh well, what would i know. i'll just leave you to it, hey, you're probably all right enough in your own minds. personally, i agree with jason, steph, some things that denley said, and tom and emo are the bomb! talk to me on msn if you want any more justification or anything.
seeya round,
jo

 

Blogger Pat Mysterio Jr. said ... (9:22 PM) : 

When you get to 25 comments, i think it's a sign to change subject...new rant perhaps?
My suggestion:
"Oh Schick!...How the war on terror was really a campaign by shaving companies to link beards to terrorism, hence making everyone shave"
/me joins group hug

 

Blogger someone said ... (5:38 PM) : 

I was typing... erm... phonetically, jason :P
(some msn-speak slipped in through habit & typing quickly. Gasp!)

 

Anonymous jacob said ... (7:12 PM) : 

BBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

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